Atomic FR... initial review

[Gasp100]

Hey Fr8, you should bring the Heritage if it's not too much trouble. I was going to suggest bringing your POD too... seriously. That would be a pretty cool test to see the tones of the POD through this thing. Although, we will also be beta testing a new Kegerator so I don't know how well our tone perception will hold up throughout the day
I'm debating between going more traditional Ofest style (Spaten, etc...) or more modern/US interpretations of the style (Victory Festbier, Rogue Dead Guy Ale, etc...) Decision, decisions.............

Anyway,

Here is an older post from the Fractal Forum that has some snippets of Tom Kings comments when the design was originally released. PLEASE NOTE this is a forum member collecting snippets of comments Tom King posted on that forum pertaining to similar questions we are having in this thread.
I think it combines almost all of the elements that people have just discussed in this thread, but closer to the source:

from...TOM KING posts:

Why do you choose to go with tubes?: After doing extensive R&D and considering solid state, digital and hybrid options, we found that tubes performed the best in overall sound quality and seriously helped to achieve the presence (“in the room feel”) we were looking for. We have our ideas on how to potentially get those other technologies to work in this type of application but considering development time, target pricing and overcoming the general negative market perception of them, tubes were clearly the best fit for this product.

[Scott Peterson]

Originally Posted by fr8_trane

I guess my response would be: If certain tube power amps are linear and uncolored then how would one hear any difference between it and a similarly linear and uncolored SS amp?

I DO know the SS amp would be cheaper, lighter, and more reliable.

I'm not trying to knock this product in any way. But my personal vision for the future of amp sims is a combo amp that is <40lbs sounds like the AXE and looks like a Roland cube 60. If I go digital I'd prefer to do it all the way.

Give me the two amps you are comparing, and we'll discuss it.

A properly linear designed tube power amp, biased properly and with a clean powers supply will be just as linear as designed when run in spec.

The assumption that 'tubes = color' is simply not as cut and dried as it is assumed to be.

[fr8_trane]

Originally Posted by Scott Peterson

Give me the two amps you are comparing, and we'll discuss it.

A properly linear designed tube power amp, biased properly and with a clean powers supply will be just as linear as designed when run in spec.

The assumption that 'tubes = color' is simply not as cut and dried as it is assumed to be.

I agree with you.

My point is that if there is no "tube" color what is the justification for the tubes over SS?

[fr8_trane]

Originally Posted by Gasp100

Hey Fr8, you should bring the Heritage if it's not too much trouble. I was going to suggest bringing your POD too... seriously. That would be a pretty cool test to see the tones of the POD through this thing. Although, we will also be beta testing a new Kegerator so I don't know how well our tone perception will hold up throughout the day
I'm debating between going more traditional Ofest style (Spaten, etc...) or more modern/US interpretations of the style (Victory Festbier, Rogue Dead Guy Ale, etc...) Decision, decisions.............

Anyway,

Here is an older post from the Fractal Forum that has some snippets of Tom Kings comments when the design was originally released. PLEASE NOTE this is a forum member collecting snippets of comments Tom King posted on that forum pertaining to similar questions we are having in this thread.
I think it combines almost all of the elements that people have just discussed in this thread, but closer to the source:

from...TOM KING posts:

Why do you choose to go with tubes?: After doing extensive R&D and considering solid state, digital and hybrid options, we found that tubes performed the best in overall sound quality and seriously helped to achieve the presence (“in the room feel”) we were looking for. We have our ideas on how to potentially get those other technologies to work in this type of application but considering development time, target pricing and overcoming the general negative market perception of them, tubes were clearly the best fit for this product.

OK so the last part mostly answers my initial question. However I would love to see/hear a SS version just for comparison.

BTW maybe I will bring the Podxt just to remind you why many people still think digital sux. That thing is BREWTAL and not in a good way. There's no amount of hi-fidelity, tube goodness that can cover for the aliasing artifacts that fizz their way out of the bean.

As for the more pressing concerns... I happen to love both styles of brew but probably favor the imports. Hacker Pschorr makes my favorite o-fest.

Speaking of which its miller time....

[Gasp100]

Originally Posted by fr8_trane

OK so the last part mostly answers my initial question. However I would love to see/hear a SS version just for comparison.

BTW maybe I will bring the Podxt just to remind you why many people still think digital sux. That thing is BREWTAL and not in a good way. There's no amount of hi-fidelity, tube goodness that can cover for the aliasing artifacts that fizz their way out of the bean.

As for the more pressing concerns... I happen to love both styles of brew but probably favor the imports. Hacker Pschorr makes my favorite o-fest.

Speaking of which its miller time....

Agreed... I've got Avery IPA on tap right now. DAMN! I'm thirsty!

[wknight2]

Hey! Some of you guys are in NJ? I'm an Axe-Fx owner near Warren, NJ. Maybe we should get a local Axe group together to share knowledge, compare gear, etc.

[Scott Peterson]

Originally Posted by fr8_trane

I agree with you.

My point is that if there is no "tube" color what is the justification for the tubes over SS?

They already had R&D done on it from Atomic's first products would be my assumption. It is always cheaper and faster to not have to develop from the ground up if possible; and it's an off the shelf item to use for Atomic. Just speculation. YMMV.

[aleclee]

Here's a pseudo-scientific idea that wandered into my head long before Line 6 was in business:

There's something about a tube amp's power section and/or power transformer that affects transients in a way that transistor power stages don't. I dunno if it's the beefy power caps, the induction of the transformers, or the capacitance of the tubes but there's something about tube power sections and I don't think it's just their graceful clipping.

[Jay Mitchell]

Originally Posted by aleclee

There's something about a tube amp's power section and/or power transformer that affects transients in a way that transistor power stages don't.

Agreed, although the most neutral tube power amps - think McIntosh 40s - either don't produce this effect or minimize it to the point of inaudibility. The Axe-Fx very effectively models the effect, so an amp that does the same thing will be redundant. My assumption is that the Atomic, like the Mac, was designed to minimize the effect.

I dunno if it's the beefy power caps,

SS amps with linear power supplies have those, and they are larger in value than the ones used in tube amps.

the induction of the transformers,

There are lots of nonideal behaviors in output transformers. These are modeled in the Axe-Fx.

[MikeT]

Originally Posted by mtmartin71

There aren't any integrated SS power amp/flat cabs that look like a traditional guitar amp that I've really seen other than the Tech21 stuff.

Tak a look at these.

Ok, they're very ugly but maybe they work well with the axe-fx? (I don't have any experience with the soundclones).

[Roodboy]

I finally got to crank the Atomics for a while and am at a loss for words for their awesomeness. I've had them for @ 2 weeks but haven't really had any significant crank time until tonight.
I have been happy with them at the family friendly volumes I play at on a daily basis but was not prepared for how much better they sounded turned up. Normally I'm at noon on the atomic volumes and 8-9 oclock on the axefx output knob, tonight at 10-12 oclock was a tonegasm.
Although everyhting sounded better I was particularly blown away by the plexi 1. I've always fought with plexi 1 and the 4x12 25w and 4x12 greenback cabs, at low volume and really thought it was mushy and lacking punch much preferring plexi 2 and the 4x12 20w and 4x12 30w cabs... not anymore it just wanted to be cranked a bit just like a good 4 hole Marshall. It was the elusive amp in the room tone I've been stalking.
This isn't a slam at the low volume tones, which are still the best I've heard incl QSC HPR 122i, FBT verve 12ma, Carvin dcm150/Marshall 8008 and 1x12/2x12 and 4x12 cabs. However, I haven't had these options at the same time as the Atomics.
Anyway I was real happy with these bad boys and now I'm real happier.

[bluesdoc]

Originally Posted by MikeT

Tak a look at these.

Ok, they're very ugly but maybe they work well with the axe-fx? (I don't have any experience with the soundclones).

Unless the street price is significantly less, I don't see them as being competitive.

jon

[mtmartin71]

Reviving this thread...so I noticed on the Fractal board that Gasp100 sold his Atomic FR to someone and he started this thread gushing about the setup. I don't have all the details, but in reading more about it, it seems like such a mixed bag on folks who like it vs. those who don't. Inherently, don't you have an issue too when the guy who designed the preamp is trying to replace tubes and the guy making the amp is using the tubes? Anyhow, I'm on the wait list for one but not sure if I'll bite.

Gasp, why did you sell yours?

[LaXu]

Got an Atomic FR. Before that the best tones I got out of the Axe were thru a tube poweramp and guitar cab. With the Atomic FR I can get those tones and more because I can mess with the cab sims and whatnot. Really liking the unit so far tonewise.

Still, having tubes in it feels kinda unnecessary. The fan in the Atomic is also annoyingly loud when using it at home. Considering either replacing it with a quieter one or modding it for a speed controller.

[OutterLimits]

Hard for me to believe the Atomic is that much better than the Verve 12ma ... I get such great sounds out of that, and the coverage of any stage or room is huge. Going back to an amp-cabinet type setup seems counterproductive to me ... back to the treble beaming issues, not hearing your sound if you are 3 feet to one side, etc.. The Verve is consistent for almost 180 degrees in front. The wedge on the Verve is a good thing, that is why Fender amps have tilt legs ... to blast away and send your sound high ...

I keep waiting for legit comparison between the Verve 12ma and the Fratomic. I agree with one poster, the thrill of new equipment might be shadowing the truth a bit, as more people sell these after further use.

I was on the list but declined when Tom called ... I am more than happy with the Verve setup ... but I would try the Fratomic if it was a real improvement.

One thing is for sure, there are great choices now ...